I wanted to start a thread on an issue which I know is dear to many of your hearts - namely the costs associated with applications for ancillary relief. I am sorry it is a long one, but the general thrust is that there are many things clients can, and should, do for themselves and save on legal costs in the process.

It disturbs me deeply that ordinary people should be running up a bill of 20-30K each. Certainly, many contributors to wikivorce have been charged this kind of figure. But is this experience typical ? Is the reality that most people involved in divorce paid rather less than this, and those who had to shell out 20-30K were unlucky ? I wish I knew.

It is absolutely necessary for both parties to make an accurate and complete disclosure of their financial resources. Clients know their own affairs best, and it is in their interest to let their solicitors have this information promptly. My own feeling is that there are many clients who are more than capable of filling in a Form E with minimal assistance from lawyers, saving themselves £200 per hour in the process.

I have often asked myself questions about this form. To the average client, it is pretty daunting. The general idea should surely be to design a form which in most cases can be completed without professional assistance.

In most cases, I feel that, if both parties complete and submit their documentation, accurately, on time, and supported by proper documentary evidence, it would avoid the need for questionnaires in most cases., with a further saving of costs. More to the point, it might well avoid the need for a First Appointment. The papers could be reviewed by a judge in chambers, and if (s)he needs any further information, this could be done by correspondence, rather than getting all parties and their lawyers together. I look forward to the day when the First Appointment will be a rarity and will be used only in complex cases.

The FDR is in my opinion one of the best parts of the procedure rules. It brings an independent legal mind to bear on the issue at an early date, and in many cases leads to a settlement. It is not confrontational ( a good point ) and in many cases will be an effective deterrent to the spouse who is adopting an unreasonable negotiating stance. Settling or resolving the issue at FDR stage can mean one hearing and not three.

I am sorry to have gone on for so long, but the subject is an important one and I would welcome feedback.
Mike 100468

Mike

Hi mike, what can i say? I cant agree more with everything that you have said, my ex and myself have just exchanged Form E and the difference between his which was completed by sol and mine which i did myself with alot of help from peeps on here is incredible, there is virtually nothing on his with only 12 months bank statements, nothing else, where on mine theres everything but the kitchen sink. I dont understand how they can get away with such little information, so now i am having to do the questionaire whilst everything on mine was enclosed with the original Form E. Is this how the money is being made?

Lolly

Lolly,

Congratulations on your Form E ! No, I don't think that this is where the money goes ( pop goes the weasel ! ) but it kinda sorta illustrates my point. Because his Form E was not completed properly, you have to send a questionnaire. So his solicitor has to spend time considering your questions, sending him a letter asking for his instructions, replying to you, and all that costs him money, which could have been avoided if he had done the job properly in the first place.

You are paying £200 an hour or so for the solicitor's knowledge and experience. It is simply crazy to spend that kind of money for filling in forms which the client could do for himself.

It's the HEARINGS that take the time and you, the client, are paying for it. If you have a hearing before a district judge, with solicitors and barristers on both sides, the costs can escalate very rapidly. In addition to that, of course, there's preparation time, travel time to and from the Court, time waiting for the case to come up, all charged at £200 an hour or so and if you have two professionals there - you see my point.

It is for this reason that I have come to the view that in most cases a First Appointment is not necessary - or would not be necessary if the job were done properly. Get all the information together, do it quickly and accurately, and get it before a judge at an FDR.

Excuse me, there's some pigs flying in formation past the window !

Mike

Mike

The thing is, HE doesnt have to worry about the cost cos HE dont pay!!!!! So whatever his solicitor does/doesnt do shes going to get paid regardless. It wouldnt bother me so much if it wasnt for the fact that me and my new husband earn less than 20k between us but were told we dont qualify for legal help, hence why im trying to do what i can myself.

Why is it not standard practice to anwer all questions and include all paperwork?

Lolly

Hi Mike,
I like the content of this thread. I am self-repping in my second divorce.
In 1999 I used all my savings up-front for the trivial stuff; and ran out of money by FDR. Our case went to a fully contested hearing; and I self-repped and won.

However; in Divorce No: 2 ten yrs later. (Different hubby by the way!) I have used a sol for the actual Divorce; and sparingly used her time on an ad-hoc 'advisory' level to get me through the Form bits. I did the Form E on my own; with tons of supporting paperwork; and the judge complemented me on the way it was so nicely presented. (Gold Star on my head!)

OK: But then he asked why I was without legal representation: (this at our First Appointment) Reasons: I worked for husband for two years; for no reward, I've blown £50,000 on the house, the businesses etc; and I'm at the lowest point of my life financially.
As I've said elsewhere: The judge then asked if a 'loan' of £10,000 would help me out. He advised my ex put this in a client account, (in my name) with ex's solicitor. He will not have an FDR; we are instructed to put barristers together and negotiate a settlement away from Court. If this is not agreed in one day; (one meeting) we will go back to Court straight to Full hearing in January.

I actually feel quitre capable of following form; and acting as a LiP again; but I'm having to borrow £10k (which will come off any settlement) to plug into some barristers pocket regardless. I'm thankful for his suggestion; but I fear that with the extended knowledge of the Internet; and helpful sites like this; coupled by the high profile Case of McCartney; that the Courts will clamp down on Litigants in Person.

The judge is also keeping an open mind about a Costs Order.

lolly .. you say he thing is, HE doesnt have to worry about the cost cos HE dont pay!!!!!

Is your stbx on legal aid?? Cos if he is, he certainly WILL pay .. legal aid is a loan not a gift in these matters.

And if his legal aid solicitor is anything like my stbx's they will drag things out - I see in another thread you talk about endless questions - well same here and all in the interest of racking up bills.

I think Mike is absolutely right to raise this issue. The real shame is that when you are faced with a recalcitrat stbx who will not settle come waht may, a FH is the only option ... and by the time that comes round if you are anything like me you are just too ground down to even consider self repping.

And btw I did do a lot of the early work on my own - Form E etc .. but then had a new solicitor drafted on to my case and that is when it all went pearshaped because he wanted to run 'his' case 'his' way - and would not even discuss a lot of things with me .. or listen to my views. So although Mike's plan is a good one .. it only works if you have the right legal support - which I know now I did not

Hadenoughnow

hi hadenoughnow, he is my ex, and this is where the problem is, he IS on legal aid, but i DO NOT have anything to give him, seriously i dont, ihave a pension worth 4k and that is it, so hes dragging me to court because he can, he started this 2 years ago then vanished, he was told 2 years ago that it wasnt worth pursuing, now hes re appeared with a new solicitor. im hoping that by the first hearing either his solicitor or the court or legal aid will realise its not worth continuing, or am i living in a dreamworld?

Lolly.