General question for anyone who might know... Both the father and mother had this child so is it not equally theirs?? Why is there this discrimination against that fact that one of these people has a penis and therefore precluded from looking after his child? What would happen if you just took this child for an overnight stay - he is equally yours after all? How is it that the person without the penis make all the rules and decisions about contact?

Huska,

could not have put it better myself. Takes two to make a baby, and then all of a sudden the child belongs to one of them.?
Never fathomed that out!!

But does it?? Is there such a law that gives automatic rights to the parent missing a penis? Is Chris33 just caving in to wife's wishes? What if he just took the child for an overnight stay?

Iknownow- thanks for the post!

I'm not seeing anyone else - don't have the energy!

She doesnt have any issues me being there and her parents arent there to keep an eye or anything - her parents look after my son 2 days a week and mine 3 days a week, the two nights I see him tend to coincide with them being there to have him the next day. Theres never been any violence or abuse or anything.

My problem with it is that I'm under her "supervision" - like she can say how I am with my son, if I dont do things how she wants, she tells me - but we will always do things differently. I have no problems learning his routines, that makes sense to keep him settled, but general moaning and nit-picking by an ex you want to get away from due to her moaning and whinging is just horrendous.

Like I say, I'd rather do it by mediation and agreeing between us but she blanks that and says it has to go through lawyers which is both expensive and causes tensions.

Huska - I know what you're saying mate, and its terrible to go from being an active parent to having to soak up any crap my ex gives me just to be able to spend time with my son - its a nightmare. I'm sure it would come back badly if I took my son for a night, even if he settled well and was happy. The stupid thing is, I wouldnt do that as my ex would be in bits - even though she really doesnt care the hurt I have from not having that quality time with him.

Maybe I'm just stupid.

No, you're not stupid, just chivalrous. And its that chivalrous attitude that is exploited by the mothers and the whole child contact system against the fathers.

I want to say several things here.

Firstly, 2 of my best friends on wiki are men with full-time care of the children. Ok, maybe you will argue that the woman still controls contact, it is just the contact that she wants not that she gives the Dad.

Secondly, can someone then answer me this question?

What is the answer?

Some of us PWC have very little assistance with the children with the NRP (my own situation is that my ex has our 5 children approx. 12 hours a month, his choice).

I could not for one minute imagine my ex coping with our 5 children for a week before things had to give and he brought them home.

On the other hand I know Dads who would manage as well if not better than the Mum. I know Dads who put their children first every time. I know Dads that would love to see their children more and I really do feel for them.

What is the answer?

Should their be a legal ­frame­work as regards to contact and then variations worked on to fit individual circumstances?

A Contact Order can force a PWC to make the children available for contact but a court cannot force a NRP to see their children.

What is in the best interests of the children?

I had a dialogue with another member last night after I played devils advocate in this thread previously and I truly feel for this Dad, 2 hours a week is nothing to build and maintain a relationship with your child(ren).

Maybe parents should both have to attend sessions before the divorce is granted to discuss and draw up a working contact contract.

I think all too often neither side gives reasons for why they don't want the other to have contact or don't want to have more contact. The children are sometimes used as levers in the whole financial process.

I felt justified in my reasoning throughout our contact battle but no doubt my ex would disagree.

Yes, parents have equal responsibility towards their children, but it is the child's right to have a relationship with the parent that is important not the parent to have a relationship with the child. That is what the Children's Act states.

Sorry, I am waffling now. Who has the answer? Does anyone really know what is RIGHT and WRONG? What systems can be put in place to make CONTACT an easier issue to deal with?

It is evident that CAFCASS in a lot of cases don't get it right. CAFCASS is snowed under with cases so CONTACT issues are dragged out. Is there a better way to deal with some of these cases?

Should everyone receive a copy of the "Parenting Plan" when they start divorce/seperation?

Should we have a more formal look at contact when completing the Statement of Arrangements to accompany the petition?

Should there be a questionairre asking each party what they want, how they see things working, what they see as potential problems?

Most of us are facing all of this for the first time when we approach divorce. This is an emotional time and we are only human. We all have feelings (well most of us) and sometimes these may cloud our judgement.

I for one, will readily admit, that I had my reasons in what I did with regards contact in the early days but also on reflection, things may have been better if human emotion was helped by some sort of ­frame­work.

Divorce is stressful and people do strange things during times of stress.

So what is the answer?

xx Sarah xx

So Chris,

Your parents have your son 3 days a week presumably as your ex works full-time?

Do they have your son at their house? Could you not see him at their house instead?

My ex walked out of mediation because he didn't like it when the mediator asked him to listen to my view (that would have been a first).

I asked my ex to put a schedule of contact on the table to see what he was looking for (everything has always been on his terms) but he wasn't prepared to do this. I then put a schedule on the table taking into account his work rota (which in itself isn't easy as a 16 week rota). I offered the "norm" (I use this term losely), what equated to every other weekend, and an evening during the week and also time during the day to see our youngest 2 children who at the time were less than a year, and 2 yo.

He said it wasn't workable. This then forced him to put something forward and he now has 6 sundays for 7 hrs and 4 friday evenings for 2 hours in a 16 week period. My children are 2, 3, 6, 10 & 12 years old.

If she really is unwilling to go to mediation I see little point, at least at the moment. Maybe you could put in writing what contact you would be happy with, even offering a gradual build up over time. If she doesn't respond at least you will be able to show her lack of willingness to come to any agreement.

Can I ask whether either of you have read a copy of the "Parenting Plan"? Below is a ­link­ for getting a copy of the Plan, it is a FREE publication.

http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?DI=586230&trackid=002289

Out of interest who was it that started the divorce?

Presuming that your ex works full-time, was this always the case or as a result of the seperation? Maybe she feels that she isn't getting enough time with your son.

I know all of these questions could be brought up at mediation and it is sad that she won't entertain it. I would maybe book another session and tell her when it is, providing her with a list of questions before you go maybe so that she can have thought about her response.

Sometimes, given time to reflect on things we see them differently.

I wonder whether as she is working that maybe if you suggested that one weekend you didn't have him at all but on another of the weekends that you either had him all day one day, or say 4 hours both Saturday and Sunday to give her a break, even if that was to just catch up on the every day things.

Having a young child you can feel like you have to be switched on 24/7. I never realised until I had that time what I was missing. Finding "me" again, even just for a couple of hours is a welcome thing.

xx Sarah xx