Police Pension

Hi Anthony

It is often successfully argued that where a substantial portion of the pension was built up pre-marriage only part of the value is re-distributed on divorce. This really depends on the relevant periods.

You are correct in assuming that the value of her pension should be netted of against yours. If you were considering a pension sharing order, this should definitely be included in the sharing calculations. However, if offsetting the pensions against other assets it is important to consider the cost of getting a “proper” value as you put it. I hope that this will be a judgement call between you and your STBX as there is little point in spending money getting another valuation of her pension if the cost outweighs the benefit. I suggest the factors to consider here are the current CETV of your STBX’s pension and the likely cost of the valuation.

For example, if her CETV is £10,000 you might feel that another valuation could arrive at a value of £13,000. If you effectively stand to “gain” £1,500 from this different valuation, but the valuation of her pension costs £500 it might be felt too much to pay for the modest gain. Particularly if you are paying the valuation fee. The figures look much more favourable if the valuation only costs £30. If her pension is money purchase rather than final salary, the CETV is likely to be more or less right.

You are obviously in favour of offsetting your pension against the house equity and it sounds as though you have the CEB from the scheme. Even CEB’s tend to under value pensions, so you might find that your STBX argues for an independent valuation. I am sorry to be morbid but in your post, you refer to your life expectancy. This is relevant when valuing pensions, particularly those in payment. However, the scheme will not have considered any health issues when valuing your pension. If your health is worse than average for someone of your age, it is possible that this should be reflected in any independent valuation of your pension. If you send me a Private Message with a brief outline of any health issues, I can give you an idea as to whether this is worth considering in your case.

You correctly ask the question about whether Courts consider CETV as a lump sum or income. My understanding is that where a pension is in payment the Courts should, and mostly do, consider the pension as income. However, if offsetting the CEB/CETV can be used, though many argue that it should be “discounted” to reflect the fact that the pension is not a liquid asset i.e. it cannot be bought and sold for cash like a house. There are no guidelines on the extent of any discounting, though some practitioners will attempt to argue otherwise. It has been argued that only 25% of the pension value should be used when offsetting, though it is difficult to find any sensible foundation for such a figure.

Finally, back to pension sharing; you ask whether your STBX will continue to get her pension if you die. The answer is definitely yes! By the way, if there is a pension sharing order she will only get her pension immediately if she has reached the scheme retirement age of 60.

Peter

Thanks for the reply Peter.
I will pm you with fuller details.

I'll add things to this topic that I think will be beneficial to other people new to this situation like me.
Anthony

You referred to having earned pension prior to marriage. In England/Wales (its different in Scotland), when you accrued your pension has no automatic effect. It is an arguable point (but so are many others). I am always cautious about assuming it will make any significant difference, often in my experience it doesn't.
Pension is just one element of what is an overall settlement. If there is lots of money/assets around to achieve an overall fair and generous settlement, there is more prospect of the contribution argument having an effect. If money is tight, the court is less likely to worry about where the assets came from if they are needed to achieve what the court thinks is right.
The general practice may also vary from court to court, and judge to judge, although they are all theoretically applying the same law... that's just the way the law is, unhelpful as it may be.

Thank you for your reply Active 8. I make no assumptions.
Like many others here, this is a situation forced upon me and I am just trying to make sense / the best of it.

Fortunately for me, I think there are enough so called 'joint' assets to provide for the parties concerned. However, some people are not satisfied with 'enough' and want more.

I fully take on board your comments. But, as i've worked all of my life to get the small amount of assets I have now, I don't intend to just hand them over, without good reason.

I have been reading the threads on pensions and am interested to hear more of your experiences regarding the calculations and conclusions you came to when dividing up the pension. Please email any info you may think advantageous.
thanks
BW

Hello, i am new here and desperately need advice before i start to pay thousands of pounds needlessly to lawyers.
I married my wife 3 and a half years ago. She had her own house when we met and sold it to move in with me. She considered the equity in her house, about 30.000, to be her money and i admit i thought of it that way as well because it is what she had worked for. She disposed of the money as she saw fit, new car, paying off some of her debts, giving some to her family etc When we married i had about 6 years left to pay on my mortgage and around 100,000 equity in the house. I planned on paying the mortgage off by the time i was 47 and then using the property to provide me with a lump sum when i retired by down sizing and having paid the mortgage off i would have enough spare cash to build up a decent pension over the next 18 years. Along comes wifey and it's all gone pear shaped.
Since we got married she has been vile, she's basically told me i am insignificant in this marriage and the only person that matters is her daughter. She planned on cheating on me about 6 months after we married and the only thing that stopped her was that i found out what she was up to before she did the deed. Stupidly i for gave her and tried to get the marriage to work, big mistake. She persuaded me to buy another house with her jointly because she felt insecure and foolishly i did and i put all my equity into it and she put nothing although the only way we could afford to buy the house was if she covered the mortgage payments which she has done for the 2 and half years we have lived here. Now it comes to splitting up she wants half of everything. This is going to leave me with next to nothing to start again now and because of my previous plans about my pension provision it has left me with next to nothing pension wise. She however has worked for the police forensics for over 20 years and has a final salary pension which will give her a comfortable retirement. Her solicitor is supposed to have laughed when she told him i was planning on fighting the case because i didn't think she deserved half as she was better placed for the future than i am. He has also told her that on the pension front i would get next to nothing from it because she has contributed to it for many years before she met me. I would love to be able to apply the same argument to the equity i accrued in my house before i met her.
Could someone give me a rough idea on whether it is worth trying to claim from her or to fight this because i really can't afford thousands in legal fees. She is earning about 30,000 a year and is on a final salary pension scheme.
Her solicitor has also told her that she will get at least 50 percent of everything because she has a child, who is nearly 14 now so only has a couple of years left at school and whom she receives child support for from her father.

Hi taeman,
Sorry to hear your news. I do know the feeling!

Is she a civilian with the Police? If so, the wages and pensions are generally less than Police Officers as they are considered to be support staff.

Myself, I took ages before I went and got legal advice. For me, it was the first step down a road I did not want to go down. But I was glad I did.

O.K, so it will cost you money, make no mistake. But it will also clear up some of your misapprehensions. From what you have said in your post, most of the information you have had has come from your STBX and HER solicitor. They are going to be very biased.

I would suggest that you take advantage of one of the 'free first consultations' that many solicitors offer - or the help on here. But realistically until a solicitor knows all the facts they can't make an informed decision.

Good luck,
Anthony