Advice - Fathers Acces to Children

having read all this thread i know no one will ever agree on what is right and wrong when it comes to seperation and children, but from my own situation i can only say this...
i have a 7yr old son, and his father and i split over 4yrs ago, we live in different cities about an hour apart, yet my son stays with his father from fri to sun every other weekend, he has no issues about why his father and i are no longer together and both his father and i have new partners with whom my son also has relationships with, my son knows without doubt that both mum and dad love him unconditionally and he also understands that mum and dad were not happy together and are both much happier apart. im not saying this was an easy arangement to come to at the start and it took a long while for all of us to be happy, but we are now and have been for a long time now, my son is a very happy child and is excelling at school, his father rings him every evening for a chat, and should he ever miss a call for whatever reason my son knows it couldnt be helped and that his dad still loves him, i do not berate his father should this happen, also if either of us need to change a weekend for whatever reason, we can swap without a problem providing it is convienient to all of us... how did we get to this.... all it took was being a grown up on both our parts and puttin our boy first, making sure he knew we both loved him and encouraging the relationships between both parents and child, putting aside any feelings we have to each other and acting like responsible adults. dont think for one minute that my ex and i "get on", we dont, we communicate for our childs sake and we are plesent and frindly to each other during drop off times, we both encourage the others relationship with our child and do not voice or act on any bad feelings we may have towards each other.... its called being a grown up and being mature enough to know that although these situations are not what we may of envisioned for our child or even our own lives, they happen and need to be delt with in the correct mannor, if not then you just emotionally damage everyone by dragging it through solicitors and courts with all the bitterness and anger, that is not putting your child first that is putting your own feelings of bitterness and hatred first and then using the child as a weapon... is that really parental love?

i know full well not every person can do this, and my life is a living proof, my "new" (of 2yrs) partner has an ex and a daughter, he see's his daughter 2 eves a week and all day saturday, he also phones her every eve and she has her own mobile where she rings and texts when ever she wants. however even 2 yrs down the line his ex refuses that his daughter has anything to do with me, so my partner is not allowed to bring her to our home, introduce her to me or even mention my name when he has his child. so far we have both gone along with this but it is fast coming to a point where it needs to be sorted out in the correct mannor, my partner wants to be able to bring his daughter to our home, to introduce us and to do be able to have full access including overnight stays... and it looks like the only way this will happen is by going through the courts, his ex has said that should he even bump into me while he has his daughter she will make access to her very difficult for him!
my partner does not wish to go through courts at all, he has been there 17 years ago with his son when his sons mother refused him any access, he won all the court hearings she was givin order after order after order which she ignored, she moved around alot, and in the end it nearly bankrupted my partner to the point he just could not continue with the courts, 3 yrs ago his son sought him out, and they now do have a relationship, the mother moved away, leaving her son behind, the boy now 17 is completely off the rails, he has no concept of "life" he takes drugs and his life is taking a fast nose dive, although my partner and all of us have tried to help and bent over backwards for the boy it seems there is nothing we can do, his mother gave him the freedom of an adult at the age of 13 and he has no respect for anyone, not his
family, not his teachers, not the law. and even though he was given a comfortable home here after his mother left him (aged 15) he has chosen now to go to the council and tell them he has been kicked out and is being moved into emergancy accomodation, he wants his own place and he see's this as a way to get it, he did have a saturday job, but he quit at the weekend because he didnt like being told what to do.

so for all you bitter exes out there who are using your kids as a weapon to take out your anger and hurt on your exes, see this as a bit of advice... grow up, yes you can have a life, yes your ex can have a life, it is everyones right to be happy, but when you cant put your feelings towards your ex to one side and do what is right for a child, then dont ever call yourself a good parent, you are not, and all you will do is damage that childs future, you will only ever have yourself to blame.
unless there is violence or abuse, every parent has a right to see and spend quality time with their children as do children have a right to see and spend quality time with BOTH parents, no matter wether one parent had an affair or wasnt happy with the other parent, it does not matter WHY the relationship split up, that is for the adults to deal with, not to be passed down to the shoulders of a child, you are only damaging that childs future happiness and their ability to make choices for themselves to be happy and to have fufilling relationships in their future.
bitterness, hatred, hurt and all those feelings we all get when a relationship breaks down are awfull and i dont deny that, but if you let them overpower you then essentially you become bitter and twisted and your judgement will always be clouded towards your ex... and towards your children... dont let it happen, be an adult, be mature enough to put your kids happiness first, make sure your kids are happy and have a shot at a happy full future because at the end of the day, if you carry on taking it all out on your ex and are hell bent on hurting them as much as they hurt you the only person you destroy is firstly yourself and then your kids, and all it does is show you as a bitter twisted old ex... rise above your feeling for the "guilty" party and do whats right.... then maybe you would start to have a life and be happy again.

I think that advice is all well and good if you have to parents in the same ­frame­ of mind. As we all know from the many posts on this forum there are many many fathers who do not put their children first, and many mothers. I want my ex to put the children first and I've tried to talk to him about being more involved and seeing more of them but he just isn't interested. He thinks everything is fine. Sees them for 24 hours and doesn't contact them in between. Even when I try to tell him how the children are feeling he still doesn't enquire how they are or discuss it with me. As he told me he has his own life to lead.
What do you do in that circumstance? Nothing I do will make him realise and it frustrates and upsets me. I just want to shake him and say "look what you are doing, when will you wake up"

what I won't do is let him run rings around me and take advantage.

What can I see - I did not expect to see this much discussion from my original post.
Firstly, I have been away with work for a couple of weeks so have not really had a chance to visit forum.
Secondly just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has contributed. I know not everyone agrees with each other but i guess thats the point of a discussion board. I have listened to everyones point of view and can take things on board from all posters.

Just to clarify a couple of things from my original post the reason I do not have overnight stays at present is because i am living with my parents until divorce is finalised and they do not have the space to accomodate. Its a bit of a catch 22 that because of financial implications I cannot afford my own place at present so need to wait for final settlement to come through but at the same time that means i dont have access for weekend overnight stays. At the same time I would like to get the access rights finalised before the final settlement as i do not want to have to go through all this again.

I totally understand the feelings that my ex-wife has and in her mind she is solely doing this out of protection of the kids. I just feel its like the last bit of control in her power she has over me and because of that does not want to relinquish it. I am not stupid enough or inconsiderate enough to all of a sudden bring my kids round and say this is my new partner and were going to all going to live together at weekends. I realize that this is a sensitive issue and that hopefully my NP can be brought into their lives on a gradual basis. To me the situation at the moment is not normal. I pick the kids up every Saturday morning spend the day with them in a park at the cinema etc always attempting to find new things for them to do. I bring them back Saturday evening and then repeat the process on a Sunday. This does not represent a normal life for either myself but also more importantly for the kids. Some will say thats the price you pay and again i understand there feelings but all I want is to bring the kids up in a way that shows that although there mum/dad did not make it a couple that they both still love them and that there vcan feel comfortable in a "new" family environment.
Perhaps i have too much of a "utopia" vision for the future but as diggerydoo's post said if the mum/dad can be reasonable i think it works out best for ALL parties including the children which is the most important thing

billybonzo wrote:
Some will say thats the price you pay and again i understand there feelings but all I want is to bring the kids up in a way that shows that although there mum/dad did not make it a couple that they both still love them and that there vcan feel comfortable in a "new" family environment.
Perhaps i have too much of a "utopia" vision for the future but as diggerydoo's post said if the mum/dad can be reasonable i think it works out best for ALL parties including the children which is the most important thing

You have answered your own questions then Billy. You talk of being reasonable, I think you ought to consider your actions before stating your expectations. This is not about you and your stbx, it's about the kids. You are paying the price, the one you deserve. As for Utopia... Is that yours or the kids? In your present position, I would focus on the kids, get somewhere for them to settle into and see if they want to enjoy the new life you have planned for them, without the family they had. When you have established that they are happy then consider the next step. Mention of introduction of the new woman should be put completely on the back burner. Try and repair the damage you have caused, get the kids sorted and then consider the future.

You owe it to them, not yourself.

Gershie

Billy -

Most of us are on this forum because somewhere along the line we experienced a relationship breakdown followed by an inability to works things out with our ex's. In this sense, we write from a position of failure and no one is entitled to assume a position of moral authority over you.

My own view is that a relationship is either a shared success or failure. Guilt or innocence has little to do with it, it is wrong to say you are deserving of some misfortune. No one here has walked in your shoes. I think there's a danger that by assuming the role of the ‘guilty party’, in effect you relegate yourself to a secondary parenting status and in the long run it is your children who pay the price.

Your situation is as you say 'not normal'. However, it will become 'normal' if you tolerate it. Pretty soon what becomes a temporary measure turns into the status qou. In respect to your ptr, your ex says 'not now' how long will it be to 'not ever'.

As a starting point. Put your own feelings to one side, forget about the ex, decide what’s best for your kids and act. Act quickly.

Milla..you and your partner did to his ex what my ex and his wh*re have put me through..and until you're on this side of the fence you cant comment! You almost write with pride about what his ex had to go through...she was HURTING...REALLY BADLY HURTING...and you refused to go somewhere for the weekend so HER kids could stay...lets hope the cheat cheats on you and let it be soon and lets see how you react to his new piece of skirt trying to parent your kids! Argh, some people!!
Sorry all, rant over!
Lou x

milla wrote:

The point I am making is that no matter how angry and emotional a person might feel I disagree that it is just being human to pass that emotion onto your children. They too have lost someone when a relationship breaks down and need the support of both their parents to get them through it. Using them as weapons to punish is not just being human imo, it is selfish, spiteful and unacceptable.


Good point!

E