self employment, ltd. companies and the CSA

I thought I would start a thread that we can use to keep coming back to for support, advice and information on dealing with the CSA in cases where the NRP is self employed, the director of a ltd. company or has signed over his/her assets to the new partner. It seems there are many of us struggling with similar issues and that between us, we might be able to trawl through some of the difficulties we face in dealing with the CsA who I personally find more difficult to manage than my ex!

So, my situation is as follows:
- ex doesn't want to pay maintenance and is the sole director of a ltd. company.
- he declared a salary to the CSA (much to my surprise) last year and he has been assessed on this. It is far less than he is living on but is not the minimum that some people have to put up with.
- he has a Detatchment of Earnings Order set up. His girlfriend (who was his ex girlfriend for a while but now appears back on the scene) is his bookeeper.
- One payment was made back in November 09 but nothing since. He now owes me in excess of £3k.
- The case is with the 'Inspectors' (whoever they may be!) and they are trying to visit him at his work address. However, his work address seems to move around a lot and the haven't caught up with him. I send a letter recorded delivery to the CSA everytime I find out about a move.
- I have asked for a variation but it hasn't happened. This is ­base­d on him living a lifestyle over and above his declared income. Was able to send business bank statements which show withdrawls for holidays, concert tickets, meals out, weekends away, huge amounts of cash withdrawls way over and above what his business needs. CSA say this is not 'proof' he is takinge dividend payments so there's not much to do with it. However, it did get sent to the 'Inspectors'.
- He is currently selling his house for which he will need my signature. CSA unoficially advised me not to sign until he had paid me. This is a great tactic but not one I'm sure is going to work as I'm also selling and need his signature! However, I am doing everything I can do get his signature before he needs mine so perhaps I'll get some movement on this. Watch this space, I guess!
- girlfriend is the sole director of two new companies, one of which I have evidence of the ex operating under that name. This is very concerning to me as it is evidence, I guess, that he intends to put everything into her name so that he has a nil liability when it comes to maintenance. However, as she no longer appears to be around, this doesn't seem to be an issue. It's another 'watch this space' one I guess.
- He has a whole new website (daft enough to ask me if I'd proof read it for him!!!) and a new company name. This hasn't been registered (as yet at least) with Companies House. Not sure what to do with this information. Just keeping an eye on it!
- he hasn't filed accounts for several years now with Companies House and is under a 'notice to be struck off'. I will need to write to them to let them know that he is still alive and well!

I make a point of phoning the CSA at least every 2 weeks. There seems to be very little movement although they are always suitably assuring that they are trying to catch him but that he's not really co-operating.

Other experiences would be most welcome - it would be particularly interesting to know which CSA offices and their officers are adept at dealing with this. I find I get an audible sigh and a 'oh hell, he's a company director, not much we can do about that is there?' when I phone. It seems written off without really trying and is all very frustrating!

I think this is a really good idea.

One point about divident payments - my stbx has records of receiving dividend payments on his bank statements - the money has to be paid somewhere, as well as payments to gf for 'book-keeping' despite her not having contract, paying ni, tax etc.

Another aspect of this is the claiming of expenses. My stbx now has approximately half his salary as expenses which means his net income is much lower. I have yet to figure out what happens if he doesn't claim enough expenses each month to cover what he is owed as full salary. I know that he is contracted to be paid a fixed sum per week and has negotiated for the majority to be paid as expenses. Probably good tax planning as well as.

Just bumping up - we can't be the only two dealing with this!

It would be interesting to hear from any self employed NRPs who are dealing with the CSA and declaring their income appropriately. What are your experiences? It may be the case that you have useful information for those of us who are struggling on the other side without really realising it!

I'm not an NRP but there are two points I would like to make.

First of all there are many legitimate ways the self-employed can reduce their income and most take the advantage to avoid (not evade!) paying more tax than required eg paying income to a spouse/partner, claiming expenses. On top of this the CSA do not take into account director's dividends or contributions towards a pension so there are many ways for the self employed to minimize income and reduce their CM liability.

Secondly, where there is evidence the NRP is living in a style above their income and the CSA investigate it typically takes about 18 months and then a tribunal assesses the level of income. Then there is often the matter of enforcing payments. With PAYE this is easy as the CSA can arrange for CM to be deducted from earnings before an employee is paid. Obviously this isn't possible when someone is self-employed and enforcing payments can be a challenge and time consuming.

Advice from the family lawyers organisation, Resolution, to PWCs is to be realistic and for the sake of sanity try not to rely on CM payments. See the useful document;

www.resolution.org.uk/site_content_files/.../child_support_fa ct_sheet.pdf

The method of paying by dividends is tax evasion on both the side of the employer and the employee and has an impact on the level of NI paid too... all in all affecting the PAYE worker who is paying their proper share every day they work...

my situation

have been battling with ex and csa for over two years now... he is not paying any maintenance as declared £125 per week salary and he is a commercial director of a £50 turnover company pa ..
he is avoiding his financial responsibility by a ) lying in court , b) lying to the CSA and more importantly the way the system is set up he is enabled to get away with it..

have tried the variation route... the investigation route..


I would love to know how he manages to get four holidays in Barbados a year, changed his car 3 times to even more top of the range cars, has regular weekend breaks away, renting an exclusive house...all on £125 per week...

I can see that it is wrong but the self employed and the directors of this world are being targeted by new provisions within the law to crack down on what the inland revenue and the government perceive as being currently legal tax evasion...

Good luck with your battle ... know how the sheer frustration and unfairness of it all...

I agree it's good advice to not rely on maintenance, particulalry in the case of the self-employed where work can be subject to highs and lows for a whole host of reasons they have no control over. However, it is entirely unreasonable that a parent is forced into bringing up a child alone, from a financial perspective, just because the other parent is self-employed.

The loop-holes that exist with tax etc. are a nightmare for the CSA and really, really need looking at. It seems to me in talking to the CSA that they can see full well what my ex is up to but have no power at all to do anything about it. And it is that which is frustrating more than anything else.

Is it worth documenting here what people have done exactly to try and get their situations looked at? Alchemist - if they can't 'get' your ex, why is that? what procedures have the CSA gone through to get to where you are now? I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not pooling our experiences and any successes (and failures) we might have had will give us all something with which to go at the CSA with? It does seem very hit and miss in terms of how you get dealt with - if they can do something in one area but won't do it in another, the fact we know it's happened gives us something to go on. Does that make sense?

It feels very much like those of us 'fighting' someone who is self-employed are just supposed to give up. I don't like that - it's not fair. There must be some value in working on this together?

Wish I could help Mum!
As you know, I also suffer with a self-emp NRP syndrome (took 6 years for the CSA to get a Liability Order and it has now taken over 2 years to get a Committal Hearing - still waiting to hear the outcome).
Interesting that the ex's only response to the CSA (ever) was to demand a re-assessment before the Liability Hearing could progress! Gave an income of £4.5k pa to the CSA who checked with the Inland Revenue and proceeded on their figure of £9.5k, seems lying has no consequence at all.
I would assume that any assets are in his gf's name, but who knows...
I'm glad that I never had to depend/rely on the ex financially - well, I say glad, but it's only because I've been on disability benefits since before we separated.
Lou